[00:00:00.000] Hi, Zoe.

[00:00:00.990] Hi, Charles.

[00:00:02.100] It’s the end of the week.

[00:00:03.280] End of the week.

[00:00:04.180] And the hallways were empty. Everyone left early, and you were the only person left. So I’ve grabbed you in to talk on this podcast.

[00:00:13.890] Thank you for having me.

[00:00:14.740] That actually is not true at all. Zoe, you just gave your first speech at an industry conference. I did. And I think that’s super cool. It’s a nerve-wracking experience, and we’ll get into that at the end. But I thought the topic was so pertinent to so many of our ever-growing audience that we’d get you on and capitalize on the fact that you’ve made all that material preparation and find out what you have to teach us about managing the upgrade cycle in business central. And a lot of things that we’re going to talk about actually probably apply generally to all upgrades of across all sorts of technologies. There’s pearls of wisdom that anyone can take out of this. But let’s just start with introducing you. So tell us about you, Zoe.

[00:01:10.900] Yes. So my name is Zoe. I’m a project manager at Lids, part of the dynamics practice. I’ve been here about a bit over two years at this point, working on business central implementations, solo chain implementations, InsightWorks implementations.

[00:01:31.680] Wms and ERP experience. Yeah, exactly. And you love technology.

[00:01:38.650] I love it.

[00:01:39.750] And what did you do? What was your background from school? How did you get into technology from school?

[00:01:44.920] Yeah, so my background is actually industrial engineering. Yeah, excellent. So I knew that Lid had that embedded within their culture and the projects that we do. So it seemed like an obvious company to choose if I wanted I wanted to go into consulting, and it was a pretty natural path for me after engineering. Technology, specifically, I was more so interested in Lid as a company, so I didn’t necessarily anticipate that I would be in technology. But now that I’m in it, I really enjoy it.

[00:02:20.390] So you had no particular designs on technology when you first left school?

[00:02:25.990] No, I didn’t.

[00:02:26.800] And we forced you into it?

[00:02:28.230] I didn’t necessarily get forced. It was a happy coincidence, but I didn’t anticipate it.

[00:02:37.070] Right. It’s like an arranged marriage, and it could have gone horribly wrong, but thankfully, it worked out.

[00:02:42.230] It was successful.

[00:02:43.080] And so you’ve done enormous… Really, you particularly have done a lot of really cool projects, and you’ve accomplished a lot in these two years. And to the point where it made sense to put you up and talk about some of your experiences in front of an industry group, which can be, as we said, a nerve-wracking experience. I’m a regular speaker in the industry, and I get nervous every time. And so I can imagine how you felt in that situation. So let’s get to the meat of what you talked about, because it is interesting. A managing the upgrade cycle or update cycle, however you want to say it, in business central. So business central, for everyone who isn’t familiar, it’s an ERP platform. It is in the cloud, right? So you are operating your business from an instance that is sitting somewhere in the internet, in the Azure Cloud, I assume.

[00:03:46.800] It could be on cloud or on-prem. It can be on-prem. It can be both.

[00:03:50.480] But it’s very unusual for it to be on-prem.

[00:03:53.510] We don’t have too many clients that are on-prem, and Microsoft is making a lot of initiatives nowadays to move everyone to cloud. So that’s definitely where the future is heading, but you could technically have both.

[00:04:04.220] Okay, that’s a good point. So tell us about Microsoft’s, the way they go about releasing updates on their software for?

[00:04:15.350] Yeah. So when we talk through updates and the process of managing that update, the summit session that I had was specifically in relation to cloud, being on cloud, Microsoft Cloud. So So they release updates, either major updates or minor updates. So minor updates happen every month, except for April and October, because in April and October, that’s when they release major updates. So all in all, minor updates is 10 times a year, major is twice a year.

[00:04:48.800] Twice a year, there’s a major update, 10 times a year, there’s a minor update. If you could categorize, just to give people a picture of what a minor update means versus a major update, what be the difference?

[00:05:01.460] Minor updates is really more so service improvements, things that you wouldn’t necessarily notice at first glance with the system, whereas major updates is core features that are changing in.

[00:05:15.270] Enhancements to features are what get packaged into the major updates. Bug fixes, tiny performance enhancement issues, that’s the minor. Yeah. Okay. And that’s really good. So Well, I don’t know how you want to go because I see the way Jeremy produces notes from conversations we had, and sometimes they confused me.

[00:05:41.760] They’re supposed to help, but sometimes they’re confusing. What do we want to go through?

[00:05:47.720] Okay, but let’s talk about… I want to start with the major updates, and then let’s move to the minor updates after. Yeah. Okay. So October, And May? April. April. October and April. Yeah, that would make sense. They would be more or less equidistant in the year. So October and April. It is an interesting timing as I think about it now, and I’m sure there’s very good reason. If you just think about it, why would I choose October and April versus, say, July and Christmas? Like end of year and July the fourth work it where there’s a holiday, and you’d hope the businesses have slight lulls in their business. And the only reason I’m saying that is, as you know, it’s mid-November. We are in a peak for direct to consumer and retail. We’re in a peak shipping period where everybody’s on the go, go, go, go, go. And they’ve just completed a major upgrade only a few weeks ago, right? Yeah. Now, so I’m clear, let’s start with this, because these are a bit like deadlines. The The October that just passed, the October deadline. Is it October 31st that this upgrade is released?

[00:07:05.230] No, so it’s not. There’s a few dates to be aware of with these major updates. So if we talk through the process, really about two months before that update is available, you’ll have access to a preview environment.

[00:07:21.710] A preview environment in August. Yeah.

[00:07:23.780] So you have a preview environment. You also have the ability to deploy some some features in your existing environment.

[00:07:33.320] As early as August, two months in advance.

[00:07:35.880] Yeah, as early as August. Some features are available in your environment. You could decide to install them, and you could start playing around with those features in your actual environment. The difference with a preview is that it’s not actually linked to your database and to your environment.

[00:07:51.100] It’s dummy data.

[00:07:52.560] Exactly.

[00:07:53.690] And so it’s sometimes hard for a company to relate to what that preview is.

[00:07:59.350] To really test it. Those are about two months beforehand. One month beforehand, you’ll get a notification from Microsoft that your environment is incompatible. If you do, sometimes you might not, but most times you do get an incompatibility with that version to come with a major update.

[00:08:20.730] So Microsoft has scanned, for lack of a better word, your code base. Then they level it against what the new upgrade has. If it will detect in advance where there’s going to be a break in your functionality.

[00:08:41.230] Is that fair to say? Where there’s a conflict.

[00:08:42.940] Where there’s a conflict, And that’s one month. Now, do people get nervous? Like, Hey, you only got 30 days, or you’re going to explode.

[00:08:54.200] People do get nervous, but you’re actually just notified a month beforehand. By the time you actually have a deadline, that’s two, three months afterwards.

[00:09:05.980] So the October up release, actually, the hard deadline is until, say, December 31st. Is that what you’re saying?

[00:09:13.830] Right now, it’s about mid-November.

[00:09:16.400] Mid-november. So that’s still scary.

[00:09:18.220] It is still scary. That being said, it’s not huge. Typically, it’s not huge.

[00:09:25.670] The conflicts tend to be minor.

[00:09:27.080] Yeah. Right. But it really depends.

[00:09:29.870] If you think about it- I wouldn’t say it’s always. No, but if you think about, logically, when I have such a fast upgrade cycle or short upgrade cycle, it’s actually a much better way of describing it, every six months, it’s not like you’re radically transforming the entire system every six months. No. So even though we’re calling it a major update, it isn’t major as in you’re going to find out that 40 % of your processes are broken.

[00:09:59.060] No, definitely not.

[00:10:00.610] So far, what you’ve seen, what would be a… I know it’s unfair to ask it this way, but what would be a typical break? How many incompatibilities would you find?

[00:10:13.180] We usually get it only for one extension, so you could have multiple extensions deployed, and maybe there’s 20, 30 lines of code that it found an incompatibility with. It might certain be… Certain things are very small, like Microsoft Microsoft has decided to name a report with the same number of your custom report. So that’s a break and an incompatibility. That’s pretty manageable. That’s very manageable. And oftentimes it is something as small as that. But definitely our developers are the ones that are looking into how much effort it is to fix that. To lift.

[00:10:53.330] So you use the word extension. I just want to remind the audience. Yeah, good point. We went over this with Matt on the a lot, and it was a huge hit. Everyone loved it. Extensions, we have to remember, extensions is the Microsoft language for literal extensions to the code, so you have your base code. If you never had to do anything, I have no idea if there’s a business. I would love to know if there’s a business out there that needs no modification to run.

[00:11:29.390] Probably not. Probably not that many. I think in my experience at Lid, I’ve had one client that doesn’t have.

[00:11:39.030] That’s great. Yeah. Okay, so that client has zero extensions, could just take the base code and work with it. They actually, in theory, will never have an incompatibility. Yeah. So the key is incompatibilities are always coming from extensions. And in Microsoft, let’s call there two basic types of extension. There’s an extension which is an actual piece of software that you will purchase or download from the Microsoft App Store. App Source, do you call it? App Source. App Source. From Microsoft’s AppSource. And that means when it’s sitting up there, there is an official business that has developed it and stands behind it. And their first responsibility with every major update is to make sure that their code is compatible.

[00:12:33.030] Yeah. In order to stay on the app source, you need to maintain compatibility.

[00:12:36.900] That is a requirement. If you want to be on the app source. Now, presumably then Microsoft is scanning all of those apps alongside. You know how you gave that example of a month ahead of time, I’m going to give you the warning, you’ve got these incompatibilities. I would assume, based on what you just said, that Microsoft has already gone into its app source and and scanned all of its third-party software and alerted them as well. Hey, these are incompatibilities that you’re going to have to work with.

[00:13:10.560] I’m not sure if they’re actually… If we get notifications, That’s a good point. But we would get them through our clients anyways.

[00:13:18.730] Right. But in theory, it would make sense- It would. That Microsoft would do that. Yeah. But that’s one type. And then the other type, which is very classic and common, is that because Because as much as we all are basically doing the same thing, your manufacturing or distributing or retailing product, we all have some level, except for that one client you just mentioned, of customization that’s required where you’ve built an extension yourself as a company, or you’ve hired a third party to build it for you. But regardless, the point is that’s where probably a lot of the incompatibilities show up.

[00:13:59.280] Yeah, that’s probably more where the nerves show up as a customer that you have this extension that’s incompatible in your environment. Because rest assured that if that extension comes from Microsoft’s app source, then they are responsible to update it. Whereas if it’s yourself, you own that responsibility.

[00:14:20.420] So a month out, they’ve given us this warning, Hey, you’ve got this incompatibility coming. Now you’re going to create a test instance. When From that notice period, when do they give you access to the new release so you can create a test environment?

[00:14:37.970] Yeah. So you get access to that new release about a month after.

[00:14:41.620] A month after the notification? Yes.

[00:14:43.810] Got it? That being said, you could still work on the notification and you could still work on the fix without having an environment available to you that is the latest version.

[00:14:53.680] I mean, that example you gave of, I have a numbered report that now is duplicated by a Microsoft core report. You could easily just say, well, I’m going to rename that numbered report right away and eliminate that.

[00:15:08.980] Yeah, you could fix it. And then if you’re no longer getting any notifications from Microsoft, let’s say you’ve fixed that compatibility, you’ve deployed it to your development environment, and if you’re no longer getting any notifications that your development environment is incompatible with the major version, then rest assured, likely you’ve fixed the compatibility.

[00:15:29.610] Oh, so Microsoft is going to continually scan and continually report incompatibilities such that you could whittle that list down to when I get that month later into the test environment, I might only have one or no incompatibilities at this point. Yeah. Okay, that’s cool. All right, so now I’m in the test environment, right?

[00:15:49.930] Yeah. So essentially, you could have three sandboxes and one production environment for business central. Typically, our clients have two sandbox environments, so they have another Sandbox environment that’s available to them. So they’ll do a refresh of their production environment, get all their live data and configuration into a Sandbox environment. Once that update is available, you’ll be able to push the update to the Sandbox environment and start the process of testing. What we typically recommend our clients is to test fully and to end your processes. So test all of procure to pay, test all of order to cash, all of operations, specifically focus on any major customizations that you’ve done to business central. Repeat that process with all your power users. And then once you feel confident that you don’t have any issues and you’re good to go, then you could start rolling out that update in production.

[00:16:48.840] Now, when you say rolling out, is that just technology jargon? In my mind, how do you roll it out? Doesn’t it have to just go into production in one big bang? You schedule it. You schedule Okay, what does that mean?

[00:17:01.830] So I’ll have my environment in Sandbox is now version 25. I’m good to go. Your production environment is also technically could be upgraded to version 25. I’m using 25 because that’s the one that we’re going to. But that environment is also available to be updated, and you have to just essentially go to your Admin Center in Microsoft Business Central and schedule the date that you want to schedule.

[00:17:34.870] So I schedule it for Saturday.

[00:17:37.320] Yeah, and it’ll kick off on Saturday.

[00:17:39.580] See, you did it again. Okay, you’re using roll it out, kick it off, kick it off. But then on Sunday, is it done? Yeah. Right. Yeah. So okay, but you see, I think from an old man like me, I want it to be real. You’re not rolling it out, right? Watch. Here’s rolling. Okay? Yeah. That, right? It’s a big bang. It’s a cutover. It’s a boom to boom. Yeah.

[00:18:10.000] Okay, well, I think it’s better- That’s better explained.

[00:18:13.260] It’s not a boom- I think The CFO of any company wants you to talk straight to her. Tell her the truth. You’re scheduled for Sunday 11:00 AM. Sunday 11:01, you’re in the new environment.

[00:18:27.890] It takes a bit longer, but yeah. Technically, Technically, yes. Fair enough.

[00:18:32.860] Okay. I think this is enough because I want to spend a few minutes just because it is a very cool milestone in your career. Giving a speech to an industry group. It is a milestone in your career. And it’s nice to bag that milestone early because it means, Look out world in 10 years, I’m going to be speaking. You’ll be giving Ted talks by then. One could only dream. Just tell me quickly, your speech was in October. When did you start preparing for the speech?

[00:19:10.070] August.

[00:19:10.910] August. I love that answer, okay? Because Because I just made a typical old man crack about younger generations. August means you’re taking this seriously. You’re preparing a narrative, you’re structuring a message, you’re So think about your audience. You knew who your audience was even in August, right?

[00:19:34.920] I did. So when I submitted my sessions initially to to to to the board, I knew that I wanted to target it specifically to people that were new to business central or more on the admin path. Because if you’ve done business central for 10, five years, you already know that the updates are coming. Absolutely. And you already know how to manage them. So I was really focused on my audience being new to business central.

[00:20:02.550] Right. And I mean, if I were you, that’s what I would want to do, too. I don’t want to sit in front of a bunch of hardcore people who still call it NAV, who know it inside out and already… No one actually is like this in an audience, but ready to tear you apart with questions that are so advanced.

[00:20:27.090] Yeah, that’s the biggest fear.

[00:20:28.640] Of course. I I’m always terrified at what people are going to ask me. Anyway, so you start in August, you knew your audience, you targeted an audience that you knew you could deliver value to, which is all very, very shrewd. And and smart. And then, let’s say, how many days in advance did you go from, I have a finished presentation and now I’m going to practice it. You did practice before you spoke.

[00:21:01.820] I did practice before I went. Thank goodness. This was about a week out that I started practicing- Perfect. With my speech, timing it. I knew I had some notes, but I was trying not to rely on those in any way, practicing the typical stuff, practicing in front of a mirror. I opted out of practicing in front of coworkers, even though I was advised to or people mentioned it could help. I didn’t like it.

[00:21:33.340] I’m sure it does help, and different people need different ways. I’m with you. Every time I have a big speech, I’m exactly like you. At the rendezvous, I have two speeches to give. And I think about my schedule. I know that leaving it to the last minute is disaster because we have things that pop up. We have meetings, we have flights, we have places to go, we have other commitments. So I have to look at those pockets that are free. And I also, like you started in August, I had my first two draughts of both speeches done early September. And then I just left them there. And once in a while, I might nitpick and needle it, but I left it there. And then the week before, hide in my office or hide in a hotel room wherever I was and practice it.

[00:22:24.510] Exactly. That’s how I went about it. I also knew that my audience wasn’t people like my coworkers who have 10, 20 years of experience with BC. I knew my audience was new to, so I might not get the same challenging questions or feedback. So that was part of why I decided not to.

[00:22:47.620] Yeah, but you care about the result enough that you practiced a lot, dozens of times, whatever it is, so you can get the rhythm, right? You can figure out what the right words and phrases and how the slide… Because it can be very unnatural if you haven’t practiced it to go from slide to slide, and it’s like, Oh, and on this slide, right?

[00:23:11.810] Practicing your transitions. That was part of building my story that I initially set up my presentation, but then once I started practicing it, I realized that something- Somethings don’t work. Needed to be moved. Some things didn’t work. Yeah, exactly.

[00:23:26.360] You’re a pro already. At least you know what it takes to be a pro. So I’m very grateful. Thank you for coming on to the podcast. Thank you for having me. I think everything that we just talked about updating and upgrading, I mean, I still call them upgrades, but whatever, is fascinating. And then sharing some wisdom, especially for the younger or early career people who are thinking about giving speeches, some advice from Zoe and El Presidente. Just get that story written out as early as possible. And you just said it. It will give you the opportunity to finetune and modify to make it even more perfect down the road. And then as you get close to the event, Practice, practice, practice. Pretend it’s like the school play, and you got to do five days of rehearsal, and then the dress rehearsal, and then you go live, and it’s a big hit. The audience… I believe it was a standing ovation, wasn’t it?

[00:24:29.900] It certainly was.

[00:24:30.850] There we go. Very rare standing ovation at a conference speech, but you got it. Good for you, Zoe. Have a great weekend. Do you have big plans?

[00:24:38.860] Not too much. Soccer.

[00:24:41.380] Oh, you play soccer?

[00:24:42.720] With my family? Yes, I do.

[00:24:44.650] Oh, not in a league? No. Just like- A beer league. Is it? Yeah. For real? Yeah. Co-ed. You and your family are a soccer team, and you play other families?

[00:24:55.910] Not other families. Other teams. Other teams.

[00:24:59.250] So who in this beer league? Who’s the top team?

[00:25:02.910] It’s my third game this weekend. I’m not sure yet. It’s certainly not us, unfortunately.

[00:25:09.070] How did you do the first two games?

[00:25:10.960] We’ve lost.

[00:25:12.270] What score?

[00:25:13.960] The first one didn’t count. It was a qualifying one, and we were playing against division one.

[00:25:20.140] Who’s division one?

[00:25:21.300] They were very high. They were very high.

[00:25:23.540] What was the team called? I can’t remember. What’s your team called?

[00:25:27.490] The Salams.

[00:25:29.010] The what?

[00:25:30.670] The Salams.

[00:25:31.900] Salami? Yeah. Well, yeah, that’s a team that wasn’t born to win. I’m sorry, Zoe. You need something like the Flaming Torches or- That’s setting us up for failure. The Golden Arrows or the Fleet of Foot or the Salams.

[00:25:49.820] I’ll come to you next time.

[00:25:51.760] Next year, you should call yourself the Omlets. That’s another winning team. Okay, well, that’s actually really, really, really funny. That’s great. Have a great weekend. Thank you. Hopefully, the weather holds up. I hope so. All right. Bye-bye. All right.

[00:26:05.680] Bye-bye.